(speaker identification by speech recognition, may not always be correct)

[0:00:00] Neil: right. I thought I've passed my Dutch 101 so,

[0:00:03] Kevin: yeah, I'm swinging

[0:00:05] Jerry: a dead cat Overheads. So have good mojo.

[0:00:08] Klaus: That is a percent within

[0:00:12] Jerry: this out of camera, just out of

[0:00:13] Klaus: camera feature women And I wouldn't dare watching Dutch you stuff here.

[0:00:19] Neil: Well, the Flanderian version is softer apparently, but the problem is that our kicking and told you have to pronounce every syllable. And then, of course, every word has reading Don't pronounce as well. So you know in your hand when you tell me these rules, Yes, but it's not just about the rules they want. You can't win.

[0:00:38] Jerry: It's good. I mean, English is a really difficult language to learn in sort of the realm of world languages. It's got so many damned exceptions and so many weird things about it. Um,

[0:00:48] Neil: it was a wonderful poem that has all the different pronunciations of OUGH and Boone. And so when you read it, it's not like this or like this, or like this is like this. It's quite a clever

[0:01:01] Jerry: Yeah. I love to see that. Yeah,

[0:01:05] Neil: I'll dig it out. I've got it somewhere, but I have another link in front of me.

[0:01:08] Jerry: It's very likely you did a Google. Um, so just as the OGM check-in call for August 27th 2020 uh, people are going back to school sort of schools are reopening sort of. It is a weird moment in time. I'm noticing Ken is indoors, not in his backyard, very likely for natural causes. Smoke not

[0:01:30] spk_3: really smoky out there.

[0:01:33] Jerry: Um, just crazy. So let's do it. Let's do Ah, brisk round of check ins. And I love today to go into a to do a little bit of barn raising on two topics. One topic is guilds like What is it? Guilt. How do we do it? Let's frame up some gills. Let's put them on discourse. Let's sort of get that kind of shaped on. The second one is, and I don't natural to call it, but focus areas, and we've got a call tomorrow. Klaus sort of stimulated a focus conversation. The Nojeim call tomorrow on soil swirled fertility, the food system, regenerative agriculture on all that that feels like you know everything from soil to climate change feels like a nexus of activities. And then the look to call these next time. Next he's, uh, and then another one. That's clearly an exit Pains domains is probably our best bet on then another one feels like a clear nexus right now. Is education on we're doing Some were playing some with Chico Lab with Charles and Lauren on that. So I'd love to create that as a place where we can gather and hold those conversations, uh, in, you know, on our on our platforms, probably in discourse as well. So that's kind of what I was hoping we would do when we get to chat. So let's do, Ah, rapid round of chickens and I'll start at the bottom of my screen with Kevin Hank J.

[0:02:59] Kevin: Uh uh s Omar. Credit Union continues to grow. People are, We're getting customers. We're putting in a quarter million dollars because it's easy to bank black with no costs and no risk. But they get loans out to folks that the White Banks don't work with. So that's the that's happening. They're trying Teoh getting We're getting a big rush from Palm Beach to bring it there. Um, in the way I do these things. I've gotten kind of a model that we call up, Ah, Field guide to Transformation. And I'm actually being encouraged to make that into a book. And I'm doing an hour a day, and I'm on day Four or five now, and it's making sense. But it has to sort of be personal, of how I got to this point to think that I have a plan. That's kind of kind of it's a hard thing to think about that exactly. It feels kind of. But, I mean, I've got this approach and it's working repeatedly. So I people say they wanna hear about it. So I'm writing it. I have.

[0:04:00] Jerry: No one would look, your autobiography, your

[0:04:02] Kevin: your There's a lot of stuff in there about how I get out there. So it's

[0:04:05] Jerry: your progress memoirs? Yeah. Yeah. Remember Morris in a field guide? Like a really

[0:04:09] Kevin: good memoirs in a field guide? Yeah,

[0:04:11] Jerry: Yeah, I love that Thanksgiving. Ah. Who was Hank then? Jay and Hank, You're muted. You may be away from the carrier.

[0:04:24] Klaus: Hope I'm here. Go on. Good morning, everybody. Quick check in from me a little little. I'm

[0:04:32] Pete: off video today. I am in the middle of packing things up for a move. So my my my usual background is in a bit of disarray, So I'm gonna be a bit of a lurker today. Ah, lurker slash You know, personal note taker. I think

[0:04:47] spk_6: for me. Um, but but that's that's that

[0:04:52] Jerry: for May. Awesome. Short hole mover. Long home Move.

[0:04:55] Charles: Ah, medium. Let's say like I'm moving from Providence to Boston. So it's only an hour, and I okay, I don't have a ton of stuff, but, um, you know, just like logistics. Cool. Isn't everything going on? Thank you.

[0:05:09] Jerry: S O. J. Charles Scott.

[0:05:12] Jay: Morning, everybody. Um, two things. Number one trying to organize. Ah, dome schooling for my daughter is

[0:05:20] Kevin: 11. So, uh, putting up a geodesic dome in the

[0:05:24] Charles: neighbor's yard and, uh, cause ours is too sloped and, um, just having space and distance there, so that's exciting. Um, the second part is I'm putting out a storytelling journal. Kind of

[0:05:40] Jay: my idea, that of how to spread this in a non technological way is how do we get people toe be able to gather their stories for whatever purposes they're

[0:05:50] Charles: doing them. So I'm in the midst of ah of a launch on that. And, uh, happy

[0:05:55] Jerry: to be here. That is awesome. Thank you, Charles. Then Scott been dug

[0:06:02] Charles: over here. It's all about the flow show at the kick a lab, which we launched with some view on Monday. It's the next three. Monday's, um, noontime Pacific is the official session time. We have this story room at 2 p.m. Pacific 11 PM, Central Europe. The other components emerging are the biz flow. Ah, tech flow place where kind of everything slow in the flow show on. Sort of just looking through these different bands is definitely with Lauren and the hash beans, the hash murders. Just dropping a lot of kind of buzz words are kicker rap ontology out there, but it's exciting. We're getting some wonderful people. Um um yeah, between the kind of from story and the online, the unlearning pods, whatever we're gonna call them next. It's not gonna be learning. Pause. It was a kind of many consensus. Uhm, the cool laboratory, by the way, is also happening on Sundays with actual real kids, our own and others. And, um, but then, yeah, the big kids get to huddle around the sort of the making of that on Monday's. So I

[0:07:18] Jerry: love that you feel free to put a bunch of links in the chat so that people can follow you to the invites into the places and whatever is being built.

[0:07:25] Charles: Yeah. Yeah, we're getting that together. This and there's an email newsletter is the main thing. Um, so anyone send me their email list? Email address for Lewis. Thanks.

[0:07:37] Jerry: Okay, Cool that you can put them on the list. Awesome. Scott. Doug, Pete.

[0:07:43] Charles: All right, everyone

[0:07:43] Jay: from airlock in Michigan. Um, I don't really have much to share this week because I've been busy with other stuff, which are unfortunate that work has come in the door after a long, dry spell. So, uh, two things to share. Thank you. That's popped up just now, so I've never heard ofher coffin before. Um, and it was interesting that in my little browser that has a little quote of the day in a beautiful picture, said someone who thinks the world is always cheating them is right. They're missing that wonderful feeling of trust in someone or something. And it said o hair comforter. So I'm gonna copy and paste that into the little check with because I thought that was particularly interesting

[0:08:31] Kevin: for our group. And it led me down a path where I found another quote from him,

[0:08:35] Jay: which seemed even more relevant to us, which is in times of change. Learners inherit the earth while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. So, yes, there you go.

[0:08:54] Jerry: And here's the quote.

[0:08:56] Jay: Yes, the cheating quote for sure on the the other one that I just discovered on the learning. I will also pace that,

[0:09:03] Jerry: and he's also relevant because he wrote this book, The true believer, which is really interesting about. Basically, we fear chaos in the mob. Social movements, etcetera, fanaticism, really interested in there as well. And thank you. Just a tiny deviation. He was a stevedore, and the root of stevedore is Portuguese, and it's the Nestea bad or Ah, long term. And that's that's the people who slowed up ships and unloaded chips. But the roots or Portuguese

[0:09:33] Jay: Interesting. Well, so his writings were in the thirties. Uh huh. And in that point, you know, as you know what what I say, Uh, history doesn't repeat itself But it rhymes, Um, you know, and And he's talking about how the you know in these times have changed. The learners will inherit the earth. And, you know, the change never stops changing. And I think that that that's a flaw in a lot of people's thinking that that well, when everything settles down, this is gonna be great. So that's all

[0:10:06] Jerry: Thanks, Scott. And the thesis of the book that Apple's writing is that the change keeps changing and is getting flux. Change your exactly um, Doug Pete Mark.

[0:10:19] Neil: Okay, I'm back home after the fires, which was pretty amazing as you learned to look at every gust of wind for a Sinus to what's actually happening. It's kind of like a war zone. Your senses air really up high s so that was pretty amazing. I've been dealing at the end of that with trying to learn how to use Rome, which has been kind of fun and the interesting. The main thing is, I gave a seminar yesterday on the tourists down to Earth book, which I still think is an extraordinary framing why we are where we are and how we can pull it apart. our political categories toe have more relevant divisions among us that we can then fight over. I just highly recommend this look so that that's it for the

[0:11:11] Jerry: week. Awesome. I'll put a link to this in the chat peak. Mark can.

[0:11:20] Pete: It's been an interesting week. I've had some great Kansai conversations with folks from GM and kick a lab, um, talking largely around tools of the fridge, Various Brain Guild, um, and, uh, Wiki nature. Um, so that that's been a lot of fun. E I also finished up the first phase of that trans transcription of the, um since making call with, ah, Phoebe Tinkle and Dave Stone. So it was really cool finishing that. And now I'm looking forward. Toa Now I've got the kind of the foundation on which I could go back and annotate it and make it richer. So that's that's the fun part. Um, yeah, I think that's it.

[0:12:09] Jerry: Thanks, Pete. I'm and last night I finally got to watch Max. Max is analysis of one of our calls where he took the transcript and then mapped it into Miro. As as basically a conversational map with swim lanes for each participant and then have had the conversation bounce back with the conversation as post its in the swim lanes, which is super interesting. And I would love at some point toe do what you're doing. Pizza. Take a slow close, read of an important conversation and see what we all can do with it. And I think that's where you're heading. Right is like, Yes, here's an artifact we can play with like that and then let let's actually let's play with something in some depth so we can start to see where it takes us.

[0:12:51] Pete: Stephen Critter, I think I got his name right has got an interesting take on that where he's done some of that something similar with a gym calls. Um, his focus is not on. We actually had an interesting discussion and email a little bit. Um, the thing that that I found, especially without called even i o G m calls, but in in that call, um, there's so many ideas that flow through and so much rich stuff that it's like I kind of need to, like, go back over the recording, slow down and be able to capture it. Just have a clean decent transcript of it, and then I can actually look at it and absorb some of the thoughts and things like that. So I felt like that was a process of Denoix Zing the conversation both kind of, um, in the speech and also temporally being able to, like, go back and say OK, you know I can I can read this part over and over and over until it make sounds. So Stevens got a different approach where I think what he does is he listens to the call and he makes notes about the ideas that are flowing past. He doesn't really care too much who is making the ideas. Any capture those into a spreadsheet, and then he can take the spreadsheet of ideas and started stop times and produce, Ah, automatic kind of super cut of it. You know, here's Jerry saying this. Here's Tom saying that there's, you know, and it and it kind of flows. The tool set up is kind of drink you right now, but it's an interesting take at also, you know, grabbing the good stuff out of a conversation. Max and I have also talked a little bit about the idea of real time transcription, which I would be super jobs to kind of set up. So I'm looking at some ways to do that.

[0:14:38] Jerry: This sounds like a juicy topic for us. Thank you. Thanks for the explanation. Briefly. Kevin and Charles and back. Teoh. Mark Kim. Judy. So, Kevin, you're muted. Ah, you're actually not muted here. We just can't hear you, Okay? We still can't really here. You know,

[0:15:02] Neil: we could hear a stomach.

[0:15:03] Kevin: Then they're OK. I just wanted want toe put out. Ah, one vote for the flow. Is it go? Isn't not putting any sense or order on it Afterwards, I really enjoyed the flow and just going with it rather than any sense making afterwards. So that's that's met my vote. I seem to be really Ginobli unique in that perspective. But that's OK. I like it the way it happens. I

[0:15:29] Jerry: don't think we're talking about changing the nature of the conversations. I think we're talking about what we do. Like what happens in

[0:15:34] Kevin: toast. Yeah, I agree. And I understand. I just like it the way it is and not not to do that.

[0:15:41] Jay: Okay, cool. Why? I mean, why is that I just would like Teoh. That's the philosophy behind it.

[0:15:48] Kevin: You know, when I let it sift down into its own sense, making rather than put a frame around and I get more out of it. So it's

[0:15:57] Jay: your person. It's it's kind of your personal process of digestion and and sends me

[0:16:04] Jerry: a totalization. And since making within

[0:16:06] Jay: your own yeah, experience. Yeah,

[0:16:09] Kevin: yeah, exactly. It makes sense. If I let it do, its thing is supposed to put it against a grid.

[0:16:16] Jay: Okay, thank you, people. A couple people think, Well,

[0:16:19] Charles: go ahead, Trust, since making is in the flow of the beholder or something like that, I love Charles. Uh, so and by the way, Captain, please come around to the flow show. It's definitely all about to flow. It's there is some structure, but with breathing. And that's one of the basic rules. Just keep breathing. But, um, let's see, just

[0:16:49] Jay: finding a bias for oxygen. Well, I

[0:16:52] Kevin: thought you were inclusive anyway.

[0:16:55] Neil: Vice versa is also true, Charles, that the float the flow is in the sense making of perceived.

[0:17:04] Charles: Okay, I'm with it. It's cool. Yes, And that's another world After a friend so, But I just want to say about editing. I think all of these things involve sort of instant editing as soon as we opened our senses. And, um so you know, there's no I think there was a thread a while back in the in the form of that objectivity And, um, but still not to get to First Tropical but flagging what Pete was talking about in reference reference to Stefan Kreutzer and also Max Herbert and and some of us to kick a lab around the tools and that mapping conversations that's definitely a part of what we're about in the flow show in the segment around kind of tech flow and map, map flow and so forth. So little chance. Real

[0:17:53] Kevin: quickly. Um, at I think you have a sedimentary since making that works

[0:18:00] Jerry: and and other people are more igneous perhaps, um, very cool. So let's go back to our chickens. We have We got Doug, we got Pete. So Mark, Ken, Judy.

[0:18:11] Jay: Okay, so you're probably aware of the fact that that in the climate change space, there's been a huge ballooning recently of literature from the financial community, the financial risk community, the central banking community. All these people are suddenly talking about climate change and in a way that they really never have before systemic risk and all sorts of stuff. And I've this week I've been integrating some of that new literature into the climate web, and we go through the documents and pull out key graphics and key ideas and organize the stuff so you can sort of get a sense of what's going on without having to read three dozen new reports, which who does? Um, but what really struck me is as I've been doing that is that even though these people are talking about climate change, they're talking about it still within their silo. And so, you know, Einstein once said that you can't solve a problem with tools that created the problem in the first place. And yet all of this discussion from the financial community about climate change is talking about how will use economic models to figure out what's gonna happen and what you know, what the impacts on monetary policy might be of climate change and how do we manage all of this stuff? And so it's all just being added as one more risk variable that will manage with the tools that we have, um, as the financial community in the financial risk community and that, you know, that just so fundamentally misses the point of what climate change is about and what the potential climate change, the import potential implications of climate change are from a systems perspective that at the end of the day, it really it's almost a bad thing that this is that suddenly we're spending a lot more time on the financial risk side. But what it's really going to do is just low us into the idea that, well, we've got that taken care of. Ah, and in practice we won't have it taken care of at all. And so it sort of comes back to the GM question of how do you break people out of these silos and and get them to sort of take a broader perspective

[0:20:19] Charles: to to some of these problems?

[0:20:22] Jerry: Um, that sounds really important. And if we can go back to it later, But I'm really interested in whether Doug, um sees that happening in his communities, because Doug Doug is a shepherd of economists and among among other skills. And I'm just really interesting how that goes, because if they're blind to the causes of the situation that run right back to finance and they're not having that conversation, we're like, well and really screwed. Um, or can we Can we help them wake up that conversation? So

[0:20:53] Neil: So, in a sense, in a sentence, Yes, I totally agree with that. The economists have a view of the economy of the flow of money for the rich, so it leaves out everybody else. And of course, you can't get a solution of the problems within that narrow confines. You've got to go broader, and economists don't know how to do

[0:21:12] Jerry: that. And then Kevin and Kevin's work is trying to interrupt that flow so that the water metaphorically flows to our communities and through etcetera, etcetera, so so back. We're back to flow. Uh, and Eddie, Ken, Judy, Peter, Peter van,

[0:21:30] Ken: everybody. While there's already so much to comment on here, we got through the chicken ISS. That's how a couple things that happened in my mind. We're hearing free Juries. Brain and I instantly had this picture of ah, a T shirt with jury's face looking up in the top of his head and the the brain just coming out of his mind if we need to graphic designers to create that for us, thing about climate change is very real to me. You know, been in California for 30 years, and this is the worst fire season I've ever seen. You know, it is August, and we've got so much 350 some odd fires burning in California. We're at what, maybe 1 C over where we've been for the last few 1000 years and what's gonna have only hit two or three? I'm really convinced we're in the Pyrocene and that the Anthropocene was very quick. We're now in the piracy and everything is on fire. So I'm very curious of how we can work with that effectively to, um, to cool things down. And then you have been working for the census, and I'm just stunned by the level of dysfunction in this government organization. We have phone calls. We were having phone calls daily. Now we're told No, we're gonna have them only three days a week. They're gonna be shorter. And he said, Well, what about all of our questions on part of a co board of 25 field supervisors, and they said, Well, basically, we can Onley answer a few questions per day. So we have people in the field asking us questions. We can't get information to answer those questions from our supervisors, and they can't get it from theirs. And so it's like someone really is very intentionally, you know, putting a monkey wrench in this thing. Um, just as one really brief example, there's a report I can access on how performance is going, but it's a custom report. It's inside the iPad. There's no way to get it out. Trying to read an IPAD screen like this and the report is a huge spreadsheet, and there it doesn't have any columns labels that Locke. So as you scroll you is what you're seeing either, you know, in rows or columns, and it does say, export to CS via my great Can I export that to see SV send it to you in the internal communication system. Then you mail that to me so I can see it on my personal computer on my Excel spreadsheet, and the answer is no safe. God stuff walked down. They will not share information, which makes that report basically useless to me. And I have people saying, How am I doing? And it's like it's a six Our admin task to just go through and figure out what how 25 people were doing when it could be done in three minutes. I'm just my mind is boggled. So, um, probably a little frustration around. This has been a big deal for me this week. Anyway, that's some of the stuff went through my mind. I'm I'm also feeling a sense that I'm fighting of missing stuff because I've been so busy, haven't had a chance to come and be within the flow lab or on discourse or all these other things. And so I have to remember conversation ahead of the mindfulness teacher 25 years ago about going to different month less retreats. And she said, if you're in the present moment, you're not missing anything. So I try to just be in the present moment and not hit anything. But I am missing some you guys all the time.

[0:24:37] Jerry: Thank you. Can. That's awesome. Uh, Judy, Peter, Neal. And you, dear, your meeting

[0:24:48] Judith: a couple of thoughts on the business is in one way exciting. But it's also frustrating because what I find is that everything I start doing has at least five dendrites coming out from it that I want a pursuit. And so I like what was said about the flow. But I think we might want to actually keep track of the den writes from topics in addition to the topic itself, because there's a lot of richness in that complexity that would help us figure out how to be useful, because at least we see the topic and complexity and can perhaps find some ways to pray mint to make it more attainable to larger audiences of people. Uh, I'm also really trying to figure out how to actualize in social movement. A lot of the things we're talking about, and that's another whole dimension of this. It's not like my learning more about it, But how do I get six other people toe want to learn about it? And then they each get six and so forth. So maybe learning is the wrong word, but I don't mean it in a traditional sense, um, engagement, excitement, enthusiasm creativity because in the complexity of different viewpoints is where a lot of the creativity occurs.

[0:26:07] Jerry: Thank you, Judy. And the first part of what you said triggered Ah, my use of the brain where I have that a lot because it's it's sort of divergent. But then because I've been using it for a long time, I have a bunch of convergence and crystallization. I call it where something, something suddenly gets simpler because I realized what the descriptor is that collapses a bunch of things. I I create a better collective noun. I create some nexus that simplifies. And suddenly it's like I've bridged the haIf a into and made a little bit more sense out of them and that those air exciting moments in the use of the tool over time, Um so I like that a lot. And I haven't had the experience of doing that with other humans in the medium, which is part of the goal of ODM. It's like, How do I do that with you all? You know, any of you who are you were curating spaces like this. So thank you for that. Peter Van Niel, then Peter Van. How about that

[0:27:00] Neil: Just just one quick one. Quick comment on that. The dendrites that you were talking about, Judy flow on. Then what? You were just talking about their Jerry. We're talking here about the same process that works for neural pathways. Yeah, and so the neural pathway is the weaving together of the strands as this as the signal becomes stronger because the sense making is more recognized. And so we have the plasticity and the neuro plasticity to be out of make these connections. We have multiple perspectives provided we hold the space for those multiple perspectives. And we also have the tools to have a show. This was the way I saw it last week. This is the way I see it this week. And here's the richer picture that I can make with the pieces that were already in front of me. And if I can weave that into the connection, then with, uh, where I've been that I've got a poem to share later, by the way, that we have some of these things around Flow fires, Onda, climate, grief, eso. When the time is right, I'll drop that in. But the just come off a call with Michelle Balance that most of you here will know from peer to peer foundation in which our GM can opposite as an exemplar Hey wants me to help with some visualisations around a peer to peer wiki. And so we were in conversation with your hand Branstad, who is the the maker creator Off mirror. And so we just had an hour and a half conversation with the Mirror Creator. And so what I'm seeing here is a convergent evolution between what's happening with the online global mind and with the peer to peer wiki. And there's multiple other sort of multi perspective, all collaborative type processes around that have information in chunks that are looking for both the handle group. But what is the red thread? And it went, Where does the red thread go at the next level? And how do we we've that with other things to make a new pattern. And what level of meaning does that hold for whoever is seeing it from whatever level of flow or die Sermet they're seeing. So I'm seeing some really interesting, uh, this stage lose some fuzzy convergent evolution between the sort of things that need to be done to make these sorts of compendiums mawr easily comprehensible less. What was the word that come up, um, overwhelming to the to the newcomer? How do I make sense in this amazing landscape of all these new objects, each of which has a depth to it that I can't quite dice earn and key players in this right now? Jerry and Michelle, who are the intuitive, fuzzy logic, interfaces with that. The information is being curated, collected and now is looking to be structured. So it's going to share that. I mean a couple of these conversations and sensing into this. But again, this issue of the narrative poetry visuals, finding different ways off, articulating complexity, the multiple levels of meaning not to force it into are structure but to allow multiple entry points and multiple lenses to see it. And if we can accelerate the right, which people can see and make sense faster from their own perspectives, will faster generate new models, which can then become new evolutionary test bits for adaptation, Given the challenges rule under

[0:30:42] Jerry: on cities were summit.

[0:30:43] Judith: But I just wanted to comment because I think there's a nugget, maybe in here in the sense that the way we make sense as a collective group right now is we we do the dendrites we come back with confirmed to re sort. We pursue one done right over another, and so on. But in trying to reach other people, maybe we need to visualize the complexity of a concept with a bunch of things inside the circle so that people own that this is This is interesting because it's complex and there's a way to maybe invite people into the circle that would help us reach a lot more

[0:31:19] Jerry: people, Uh, neal briefly, because this is such a juicy topic that we need to actually just focus on and have time to talk about it properly. But go ahead

[0:31:30] Neil: just just very quickly picked up what Judy said. Yes, and if you imagine this is a tree with flows were bringing global resources down to ground and where they hit the ground, become riel communities right and then the same time, or getting feedback from riel communities that come back up through the trunk and to me that the threads, the dendrites, are the quickening process where we're bringing together multiple strands. Weaving them together has to be structurally sound, but it has to be flexible enough to branch out and absorb more, and it has to have roots that can actually draw stuff through. And if we can't land this, it's not going to be really that. So it has to be grounded at the same time, we have to be aware of the atmosphere around us.

[0:32:14] Judith: I want to add to your image and their aspens and birches because every dendrite grows and grows a new treat. So we could have fun with that

[0:32:22] Jerry: exactly along those lines yesterday, I was day before yesterday was looking for an image of dendrite sor haIf a or something like that and ended up with basically a nice diagram of how mushrooms happen. And it's, you know, my Celia are the networks of mushroom material in the ground. The mushroom is the fruiting body, so that might seem to go up, create a fruiting body, which then creates little endpoints that drop spores for reproduction, and the hi fi are the leading edge of the little filaments that go ahead on do the connections. But in an interesting sense, the peer to peer foundation. Wiki is a mushroom along this this sort of my seal network etcetera, etcetera. And you could think of these objects that we think of as a thing that might have a culture that might that might have, you know, governance mechanisms and all that as mushrooms in this field. Uh, just interesting. And then a second. One of the things I really want to do with the G M is to bridge to other organizations. I, Michelle and I go way back. I love his peer to peer wiki. I have many, many links into the peer to peer wiki in my brain and would And this project, if they're focused on trying to visualize things that are happening in In beautiful waking, that sounds like a really, really great thing that we might want to jump into and visualized with other tools. Do other stuff. If you wouldn't mind building a small bridge so that we can sort of include some people from their in our conversation and then help them do what they're doing, that would be fabulous. I think that was

[0:33:47] Neil: considered being built. Thank you

[0:33:49] Jerry: would be phenomenal. Thank you. Uh, super and and did you? Did you have anything else you want to check in with?

[0:33:56] Neil: Just that we had a decent rainfall for the first time in about six weeks, so I've been able to slowly start to catch up with things because I haven't had to do quite as much hands on watering around place on just the feeling of a live nous that comes from the garden when they could nitrogen enriched water into the So instead of having to go out, check every lunchtime and the water every evening for two hours to actually see are things literally this burst of life? Just quick. Example. Security files on the plant one day, zucchinis six inches long, the next. It's like Where the hell is that come from? Is like it's like a guy blowing those lot balloons suddenly appears. So it's It's amazing. That's a latent desire for life, and it's just waiting for the right nutrients.

[0:34:47] Jerry: If you plant that any magic beans, beware for the Giants. Pieter Van Tony than Class

[0:34:56] Petervan: Um, Yesterday we had the shooting

[0:35:01] Petervan: video shooting off one part of disciples pirate TV program that they're building that despite an experience like the camera man was in Los Angeles, and the production team was in New York. And I haven't seen Belgian steering and interviewing on Ben A little who get her messages across. Uh ah. Learning here. I'm always trying in the sort of events, whether they're online offline, that I produced this too. Uh, stretch the speaker, uh, to bring their message in a format that they're not used to. Usually what happens is that

[0:35:57] Petervan: because there is that stretch, the speaker does extraordinary things in a positive sense. So the trick that worked yesterday was saying, I don't want

[0:36:10] Petervan: you to talk over

[0:36:11] Petervan: your slides, but we are doing

[0:36:15] Petervan: exactly the opposite. You talk and we will

[0:36:19] Petervan: at the images on top off your words and not the other way around some

[0:36:26] Petervan: other things that are happening.

[0:36:27] Petervan: I'm experimenting with another form of pirate TV. It's around art. So I'm going to invite

[0:36:35] Petervan: artists in residence in virtual residents to share,

[0:36:40] Petervan: uh, their studio and sort of things that they have been working on. Lessons learned

[0:36:47] Petervan: The body thing is still alive.

[0:36:49] Petervan: Uh, this moment pairing up the contents experts with, um on artistic person. So, like Robert point, Um I'm

[0:37:06] Petervan: pairing him with Amber Case given example.

[0:37:10] Petervan: And so we are at this moment at the stage that

[0:37:13] Petervan: we are, um, trying to create two minutes

[0:37:19] Petervan: beta versions of pirate TV so you don't to be a four subjects. Therefore, thanks to liken eight minutes trailer commercial off. What we having minds?

[0:37:31] Petervan: With four different artists. So that they each give their own way off supporting the contents for the rest. I'm playing around a lot with I'm following an online course in final Cut pro in logic pro. Lots of music patterns. It's amazing what's going. I'm having fun.

[0:37:53] Jerry: That is awesome. Thank you, Peter. I really appreciate that, Uh, Tony, then Klaus. And,

[0:38:02] Anthony: uh, I've been just, ah, looking at my personal investment portfolio. Bonds eight. Pay nothing. So I'm looking at using several products involved options and generate income streams that are that dependent upon interest rates is by sticking to be paying anything for a long time, that's all.

[0:38:21] Jerry: Ah, thank you very much. We'll need good financial survival strategies. A class, then map. That's sorry. Class and Julia on the map.

[0:38:30] Klaus: Yeah, a couple things form from the food world. I think you're everyone is tracking thes climate immense, that hitting us in Oban wave after the next. But I'm focusing on what does that do to the food supply? So Iowa has already lost over 50% off its annual cop. In addition to that, it has gotten bite out a number of silos. California is on fire and produces over 50% off the U. S. Borders. Some key crops, 80 90% range, like tomatoes, artichokes, broccoli and so on. Uh, this storm, really right now into the gulf's will take out another few million acres of core planned, uh, before it just just in time, in time before the harvest. You look in the North Africa just with the UN region. They have been devastated by Locusts and got lost almost the entire car for the here. So when you look at this in aggregate, what's happening across, uh, across the planet Right now, we are in for food shortages that haven't really been discussed, and no one seems to be focusing on another thing I wanted to share. I mean this form what 80 members air so consisting off a number of NGOs, it's hosted by the Sierra club, But we have no the queen who Deals and Rights Movement in and Regeneration International. Okay, And the consumer association is on that, um, in this scope known. It's a Kraft Foods action team, so they're trying to put things on the crowds that that actually have an impact. And we keep getting stymied because you have the animal rights activists after vegans. And so you have so many different interests interest schools who kept neutralizing each other. So the Organic Consumers Association finally volunteered. Now, toe put up a weapon on to focus specifically on vegans and vegetarians on How can you know, frame your mind set about what it is that you think about your neighbor, you know, is an only war on How can you live in peace and greet a joint strategy to move forward? And so we we did this weapon are a couple of days ago, we had three speakers who don't normally show up in a non profit unpaid all toe to participate, and I would really recommend and putting it online here. It's a one hour conversation, but you asked three D systems thinkers here who in narrative form explain what they see how they would recommend for us to embrace a mindset that allows us to collaborate. So, for, you know, for anyone interested in the conversation tomorrow around food, I would really recommend you listening on this because it will give you a deep inside into the structures off the food world.

[0:42:02] Jerry: Thank you, cause that's that's really rich. I appreciate that. Um, Julian, then Matt of this is different for the last two weeks have been focused on the annual computer graphics conference called Siggraph, and one of the things I've noticed is that there's an increased interest in history in this group, which is coming up on being 50 years old. And then, of course, my particular bent is what is the backing structure of However you store all of the knowledge of that history and how the different parts of it relate to each other. Um, see, graph still has today and tomorrow to run, so I don't actually have anything to report yet, except some interesting ways of visualizing that, but not managing it, which is quite different in a group where you're trying to have a living way of storing information, you need management not just visualization, so don't have some some more Newell's next week. Cool. And thanks for reminding me of cigarettes. I think I attended one once a really long time ago. And so a couple things that came back later. I saw one project I think called Mandela, where I stood in front of a green screen and could play instruments and all that. Yeah, later. It was quite a while ago, Jerry, like 99 or something like that? Yeah, it was ages ago. Really cool. Um, it's sort of like there's a lag period between when you see it and see graph when it shows up as Microsoft connect or something like that. Um, Matt, your turn and your muted

[0:43:37] Jay: I'm starting a broadcast here real quick. You know, I've been thinking, um, I think been thinking a lot about structure. Um, and how do we get ourselves structured and, um, you know, moving things. And I sort of see that there are these three sort of big areas of, uh of structure. One is over here. Um, which is this idea of that? There are these domains of action, and the domain of action is an area and they're probably viewed. And from a systems theory standpoint, are subsystems, right? So we have the food system, we have an education system. We have the money system. Health system, I wonder about The environment isn't isn't. In some ways, it's the meta system that we're all living in. If we if we think about it. And I think about work that we've done across, right, Kevin, we're talking a lot about the money system. Klaus, you were talking about the food system right on the education system. We've been playing with us well, so we have to define all of those systems, and we don't have to build them all at once. But those are the In some ways, these domains of change are the consumers, not consumers, because Jerry I said that before. But they are the Ben. If the beneficiaries, that's probably the right way of saying it is the beneficiaries of what Oh, GM is right, because that's where the rubber meets the road. I think it's like when we were talking about, um, you know, on the ground level kind of stop, then I think you have to sort of bodies of that are serving, you know, Are, you know, serving those beneficiaries? One are these sort of tools and capabilities we talked about. Some of them were using the brain. We're talking about Rome or using this course. You know, we're talking about neuro. There's ah, and it gets kind of hard here, this calendar ring, you know, we need, like, almost like a calendar ring system where we all can see what are all of the meetings that are going on. And so there are these tools and capability capabilities could also be, you know, processes or practices made. Probably not. But But there these are the things that we need to build technically like as human beings have done and built tools. And then you have these guilds, the blue stuff down at the bottom here, these guilds and practices and we're building these two right story threating is one of them. We have graphic facilitation. You know, I talk about facilitation practice. There's learning how people learn pirate TV in some ways is a practice or, you know, so I don't know what the guild or practice system thinking and all of those things, if you take if we start building out guilds and practices, right? We stop building out tools and capabilities, and we start building out domains of change that the domains of change will actually inform become like in terms of a design thinking standpoint, they're the ones that are informing what we need to do. So we're not just building stuff to build stuff. We're building stuff with change in mind. Um, and maybe I'll just finish by saying each one of these, each one of these different things needs this, you know, kind of organisational This piece here, organizational support and management I saw in discourse the fact that we're saying What are the Orc structures and those things is a multi, you know, multi celled super organism made up of organizations. Do we need new legal structures? Do we need all that kind of stuff to hold toehold in support? You know, this and each one of these three wedges has kind of its own mission, right? These domains have changed. Their mission is to grow membership and grow impact. You know, tools and capabilities are to make make you know, the growing of membership and growing of impact easier and more efficient, right and the guilds and practices are to create, you know, shared ways of doing shared ways of thinking that enable all of those things to be done. So I'm just starting to play around with this, and I I think if we can collectively think holistically about all of this, but then get ourselves attached to where we have passion so that we can get Mawr mo mentum and focused against all of these fronts at I think that will be quite beneficial for us. So that's my That's my check in. That's where that's where. Mind mind is that, um

[0:48:05] Jerry: if you want to keep the keep the graphic up on the screen for a second, I think, uh, Kevin wanted to jump in, and I know I want to jump in. So, Kevin, go ahead. You mean

[0:48:13] Kevin: yeah. Hey, this is Can you hear me? Yes. Yeah. You know, the crossing of domains is really interesting. I'm working as I mentioned before with a faith based economy and a lot of ways. And it turns out churches around the country own a lot of farmland. That used to be a way to pay preachers to give them some love land. And so I'm working with folks who wanted Look at the collective use of that. And what we're looking at is a purchasing cooperative, which is really easy to do because you don't have to have a lot of complex governance. You just can collectively lower your cost of seed and lower your cost of fertilizer and lower your cost of farm equipment. And we can figure out other things from there. Co operatives often help you share in the abundance, and then mutual things help you stop things you don't want s so we can look at mutual crop insurance and flood insurance. But the easiest thing to do across the even domains for these folks is, ah, purchasing cooperative because it cuts their costs of operation. And it doesn't cause the next to change anything. So I'm looking for inflection points. You know, Demet danela Meadows inflection points that cross those domains. So I really love the graphic Matt. Thanks,

[0:49:26] Jerry: love this. Let me jump in and then cost. Um, So the thing that occurs to me, Matt, is that maybe this is a cross section through a triangular tube? Yes. That's standing in the field and that what's poring through the tuber projects? Yes, and some of those projects are open. Source some of those projects or for profit. And as the project sort of sort of goes through the tube, different guilds participate because they're needed for the project. Somebody is leading, the project goes, Oh, we need some of you. Some of you come on over the project touches one or several domains. One of my fears is drawing domain boundaries too sharply correct has everything is deeply intertwined, Khaled. But the idea that there's a finance money value, wealth nexus is is awesome on, you know, soil fertility, climate, Earth nexus is is awesome. And then they choose from the tools, depending on what they need to get done and how they want to memorialize their work and share it out and all those kinds of things. So so kind of. The projects are bouncing down the tube, picking up from the different kinds of communities and project and, uh, on domains and tools.

[0:50:30] Jay: Yeah, I love this idea of like, the project drives right dry, you know, domains. I think the projects have to spin out from creating value, right and value not in terms of the classic capitalistic fusion of value or but, you know, producing change in the world that is of value and that those projects will do will consume tools. But they also will or will you know, again that were consumed. We'll have to have the work that out of my system will draw on those tools. But it will also inform toolmakers to make better tools. And I think I think part of this is how do we get people who say I want to be a toolmaker and I'm going to be making tools to help those projects because these projects are based on problems that need to be solved in those domains of change. And I love the domains of change. Doing That's the same thing with the guilds in the practices. How did those guilds and practices learn constantly learned going back to you know? You know, Scott, what? You your quote, right? Become the learning engine of how to do things so that those domains can focus on the problem sets and you know, in a greater level of focus, right? And I think this is where we can start to build some ownership and then still have this check in where we're all primordial, mixing it together and and then that way. You know, Kevin, if your sense making process is very, you know, you know, sit and contemplate, then we build tools that help that and right. And if someone else's processes about really about analytics and rigour and spreadsheets and that we build tools that support so we build. And that was my comment on discourse was not was not about people helping me how to think better. But how do we enable everyone's thought process to inform the way that we build tools so that we're enabling every human being to think at their peak? P performance against the problem sets that we need itself because they're so damn big. And I think that's the other thing that I'm learning here is you know, Mark has been working on climate change for however many years and is frustrated by the lack of progress. I'm sure Klaus, you've been working on food for however many years and probably frustrated by the lack of progress we need. Teoh. We need to almost bring in more people and bring this united in the same way that Kun on has ignited. You know the conspiracy theorists into a powerful force. We need toe, you know, bring the intellectual course power of change, thinking into the world in a powerful force. So, you know, I'm on my soapbox.

[0:53:12] Jerry: Thank you, man. Close.

[0:53:14] Klaus: So with that, Matt, where I think in exactly the same position that we found ourselves in this nonprofit cope in this NGO co write also this That's animal riots, vegetarian deacon's this'll, environmental concerns, pollution form, cables and so on. So when I look at foods, it's an umbrella that has to incorporate education and health and environment because it touches on all of those necks. And if we can communicate that you know, if you can come to me, the way I have put that into my mind is and I'm also showing that in in my power point presentations, I put food on top. Its energy Oh, you know that the energy system needs to be reformed, needs to be carbon neutral and all of that, but the or the other system is food where we can sequester carbon into the soil to buy us. It's time for the energy systems. And in order to do that, you know, we have to make so many changes that also impact health. We need tohave to education toe under to make people understand what food really is that it is so much more. And then what, you just eat. So it's Saudi. The, uh um the what I'm missing in this in this graphic here is theon Preller function. You know that when we have to have a commonality in and where are we going? And this is this process of crystallized

[0:54:56] Jay: that's that's that's that's this thing, Klaus, and I think I agree that there needs to be an Embera list system. And remember the model that I showed the other day where it used to be a line in a square and then decision making and execute. And then that moved through all of these rays opening up of all this information pouring in, and that this thing, that instead of being one triangle, it was in a one rhombus. It was sort of spinning over. And so it kind of created

[0:55:26] Neil: new shows for your pointing to then met.

[0:55:29] Jay: I don't think different graphic. I don't know if I have that document. But, um, it was, um Ah, it

[0:55:39] Jerry: was a graphic that had, ah, line coming in a big circle, which was a square rotated or hexagon extricated. So it went from a bunch of where he's coming out

[0:55:47] Jay: it went from This is the normal way that businesses think that people think that we've been all talk to think that you and you bring in information and you analyze it. You sort of work within a framework, right that expands within that frame, working verges within that framework. And then you come up with execution. And, you know, this is the kind of model where I say, Okay, I believe that it's on Lee about food is my center framework. My mental model is a mental model of boot. Somebody else. There's no my mental model. My mental model is a mental model of energy. No, my mental model is, you know, is an a mental model of money, right? And and so So the idea is how do you spend all of these mental models to gather and work them together? And I think you know, inter Inter Hank and share it. But interdisciplinary, interdisciplinary thinking, right? What part of the problem with academic, you know, academies right now. And I've been talking people and just play the video. Um, is that interdisciplinary? Thinking that everyone likes their own discipline, right? They fall in love with their own mental models, right? This is what human beings and do, And I think what we can close to your point is the food system is away into the to the to the whole system, right? Energy system is away into the whole system. And so this sense making has to be all of those systems and all of the information about those systems coming together. But I don't think anyone person can can comprehend that. And so we need, you know, we need you know, Peter van. You know, the work that you're doing with creatives and artists to be in here. We need the work that we're doing with, you know, food. To be in here with education, to be in here and and in some ways, we have to o g m is about allowing all of those perspectives to come together and work together, right?

[0:57:43] Jerry: Sorry. No, don't be sorry. That's great. on. And if you can unsure, so you can see everybody. Neil,

[0:57:53] Neil: you move my mute button, my founded Matt Love that. Thank you for sharing that, because it shows the bit that I could see that was missing. And I think class mentioned was that umbrella. Since making just be aware, some people can actually make greater sense of greater complexity than others on this. This is a vertical hierarchy, right? It's not a hierarchy off control. It's a hierarchy off consciousness, right? And it's not to go to the spiritual. That is to say, If I deeply connect with these multiple sources, I can see this pattern if you can't see it and you as a designer, anybody is a graphic designer. Anybody as an architect conduce these things differently to others. Others can follow once they can see the artifact that's coming from that on. The whole system's designed process requires multiple sense making inputs and a vision that shows this is the sort of thing we could create and followers who are prepared to do the nitty gritty down to earth work and support for those that can do the visionary work who are generally doing it for nothing all the time, forever, right? And so the problem we've got is that the transformative thinkers are not being supported by the people that want to do the work. And the people that have the resources to do the work don't necessarily let in the transformative thinkers. I think this is where Hank was agreeing with me last week on Yes, that's my story, right? So how do we line up this mutually assist of community of different levels of thinking different ways of seeing in ways that allows those that can provide a vision which is moralistic toe. We've in the pieces of evidence required to convince those that would otherwise not be able to be in trained in the process because they're still fighting over difference. And so the thing is, you've got to find a mechanism for governance off, unlike minds, not of like minds. And that's the story that I've been trying to explore in the big questions thing that I put on my mushrooms discourse, discord. Wherever it's gone on to 15 platforms, that moment in your in your platform. I've tried to explore that, but the meta constitutional processes for how we define the rules by which we each agree the rules within which we then decide the priorities within which would then decide how to apply the knowledge is what's lacking because that's the whole system's transformed of thinking bit into which all these pieces form. But it does require the overarching systems ethical question for what purpose and in what systems context? Because if we aren't doing what we ought to do, that we're screwed. So what? What will be teaching in schools, what skills, what we be building? If we know these things are happening, how do we do it under for away?

[1:00:46] Jerry: So I present to class in a second, But I I and I don't know how to express this properly. I don't I don't believe that there is a curriculum that everybody should learn in schools like the common core makes me crazy. I think that, like this is what everybody should know how to do doesn't work for me.

[1:01:04] Neil: No, I didn't mean that.

[1:01:05] Jerry: I'd better, but I heard a bit of that and I think other people who really think like we need a lot of structure, totally heard that was like awesome so glad Neil said that. And so what I'm trying to figure out is an end. There are many communities that away further ahead than asked on how to fix the world on. And part of what I want to do is build bridges to them and what I'm looking for us. How can we be useful to all of them so that the best of what they're figuring out kind of absorbs into us, and we then modifier structures to improve how we work according to the best of their principles rules, artefacts, whatever else it might be, how do we influence them by helping them create a better memory and share what they what they've discovered better out, uh, etcetera. And how does all of this turn into an ethos? A way of seeing a way of being a way of doing. And I own the domain CB do because Marty Spiegelman and I years ago we're talking about, you know, once you see differently, you can sort of be differently than you act differently. But get getting to that is a kind of congruence. It's not a Here's the best model of all the models that doesn't work. I think either because then what you get into his religious, combat and other sorts of things. But how do we get this ethos of making progress on the right things together? Because, like you said, if we work on the wrong things were screwed, but without somehow having a strong, solid umbrella that says this is right because that generally leads to combat. And I'm not saying this well, I'm overstating a lot of it, but But that's kind of where that took me.

[1:02:36] Neil: Find just a very, very quick follow up. I think there was confusion there. The work I was doing in in Australia was with riel communities and in looking at how to develop United Nations regional Centre of Expertise for Education for sustainability for the whole of the Murray Darling Bison. The challenge is that the university's air training nurses and doctors to go to the cities, they're not training people that I got to actually be out of maintain communities in the midst of climate change and now covert and social economic ecological collapse. So when I talk, what what we be teaching? It's not a one size fits all curriculum. It's tailored to system boundaries. It's based on how we have made sense off trends and directions as classes saying about food collapse and various other things, and how do we support each other? But the fundamental things we want to be learning our system ethics and how we relate not just topics of mathematics or stem or whatever, right? And there's no point in training more nurses for a city that's collapsed on. There's no point in training more lawyers to compete if you've got nowhere to work the land and feed them right. And so how did we get to that high level system? Ethical hall system intent? That's from coming from.

[1:03:45] Jerry: Thank you, Klaus. Julian, Kevin.

[1:03:47] Klaus: So this is where this concept leading from the emerging future is coming from. So we were the gene school women were working on this school project. We got invited by the University of Cambridge to participate in this future thinking concept, and it's very interesting that I actually developed a software to guide this as an exercise so we would have a cycle and then the moderators who picked certain comments and called it to the next level. But in a nutshell, The idea is that we went 2050 and we defined what the world looks like in 2050. And then they're going to 2020 and we determine what had to take place, what took place in 2020 2025 2030 to get us to this 2050 space. So we we we happened when we have a clear picture off the destination, not something like clearly defined or structured or so on, but a an ideal as version off the future and other minds, then all the minds with screen phenomena, people ideas in a different way. So So for example, I put on a group of people that just formed a nonprofit company, which I thought was just amazing how how spot on what they're doing is through the needs off the economy currently in the way I see this is because I have a clear vision off where we need to go, Mr Food System, in order to put our to put this thing back together. So I think you start in the future and then then you're thinking today gets gets moved in enlightens towards towards that

[1:05:38] Jerry: Julian, Kevin, Matt and Julian we can't hear you. And Julian, I don't see you should Maybe you dropped off. Um Okay. Uh, Kevin, then Matt.

[1:05:59] Kevin: Yeah, I'm just really quickly when you think about doing things. Um, I love all the creatives in the room and no project ever really becomes. Really? No business becomes really? Until you have line workers. You do the boring work that the creatives hate. So it's just, you know, creatives air good. They have marginal utility. When you do things, they need to be siloed away from the actual production line. When it's time to do things as they will want to tweak something that should be a repetitive process. Eso you know, e three The creators value has has value at a certain point in time and less value at other points in time. That's my perspective.

[1:06:40] Jerry: And in brainstorming what GM could turn into Matt and Hamilton. And Hank and I were thinking that there is a really important role we called builders and that builders of people who love to make should happen and don't necessarily have a particular tool they care about or ah, remain that that that this will be hard for them. they just want t o Help! Help propel change by doing what you just said, Kevin. So I think we need to make a role for that. And also one of the things that I was thinking about the diagram that Matt share it is as people show up toe GM the A map like that can help them find their way to where they can add their energy. That's part of the structure that we need. Is is like, Hey, I'm new here. What? You know what's happened? Where where can I help? How can I help? And you know, more clarity around domains, rolls, guilds, tools, whatever and projects I think we'll give us that

[1:07:30] Kevin: my two businesses that went big. It turned out that I found myself one floor below the main operation at at the Southwest, and a sanctuary person said that's exactly where he needs to be with strings into scale. He just comes in stir shit up, but he doesn't get in

[1:07:45] Jerry: the way. Awesome has great Math Central's.

[1:07:54] Jay: I didn't know if Mark raised his hand as well. So, um or, uh to saw that, um, one of the things that I am No. I wanna see if we can do as a group and challenge us as a group is to put the right scaffolding in place for the conversations that we're having to not not just get lost, you know? You

[1:08:19] Jerry: know, Judy, you were talking about the

[1:08:20] Jay: dendrites and making sure we're following those things and eso You know, Neil. Well, I don't disagree with anything that you were saying. And Klaus, I don't disagree with anything. You're saying those those conversations that you were having our in the system change kind of place, right? Those are conversations that belong in, you know, domains of changing the way that we think about education or changing the way we think about the food system or changing the way we think about the energy system related to the food system related to the money system. Like like we need to facilitate those conversations. We also need to draw in, as Jerry was saying, drawing all the other people who are also in those conversations because I I think critical mass here is really important. Momenta in here is important. And, you know, momentum in the human context is mass. Times velocity, right So let's take a lot, you know, Or in the in the physical is physics senses mass times velocity. Let's take velocity and mass in the human sense mass has to do with density and the number of people so higher level people in an organization have greater level of density in themselves. But if you have, you know millions of people you know together that creates his own kind of mass. And then you have to get that mass moving with feet in a given direction. And Klaus, your problem set is that everyone's directions air going like this even though they're in the same room and those vectors aren't aligned. And so I think part of the work up to these domains is about, you know, gaining more mass and then getting that mass in a line direction so that they could have really impact on the frictions that exist in our world today. There are so many frictions about because we're all used to our own lives were used to our air condition. We're used to our you know, our buildings are closed, whatever it is, and until we get enough momentum against that, we're not. We're not gonna be able to move, So I want. I want some people I would love to see. Some of us say I am intentionally focused on that Those those ambitions within that construct and then other people to say OK, I'm intensely focused on building things, you know, building the tools and the capabilities for those people so that they can do their work better. And other people are saying, Well, I want to deal with the skills and capabilities whether it's storytelling story threating, you know, systems thinking that can supply those people having that impact with whatever they need from those capabilities to to facilitate that change in the world. And I think the more organized we get to Jerry's point, the more when people come in we can say, Hey, where do you want to play? I want to play here great because I think focusing our energies than efforts at this point in time, we're kind of out of the, you know, we we like each other. We like the way each other Thanks. We all believe in each other's passion. We now need to get this stuff, you know, some traction moving, and I think we can do it. It just requires a little organization, right?

[1:11:38] Jerry: Um, a couple things I think that people are showing up in saying I'm really intensely interested in this as Klaus is right now and so forth. And the rest of us are like, What is this? How does that fit? Where is it going? Um, and I'm trying to figure out what is the right. What is the right analogy? What is right? Metaphor. What is right? Word or process for like it's not engulf and devour. It's not how viruses hijack other organisms. It's basically how do we kind of resonate with other organizations whose thinking we really like and meld with them? It's maybe it's a Vulcan mind meld is organizational Vulcan mind melt. But I have a hunch that Neil knows a lot about this, Um, and I'll pause for a second, and I've also got a small, cute Neil. Then I'll go back to Cuba

[1:12:22] Neil: just very quickly. Um, consciousness is around, include and transcend, but with entrepreneurship, it's about it transcend to then include right. The strange attractor is what is cast in front off the crowd that was otherwise going a different direction. And it's the thing which, potentially with sufficient inertia, becomes the new model that makes the old one obsolete. So you need both and and you need to play these roles as zoom in, zoom out, play these roles sense into which way is the herd moving that's exactly correct. Or use the water buffalo and the and the wildebeest on the Serengeti as an example, right that if the herd isn't moving, you can't steal them. And so where they're going to go, we're going to go towards the grass. Where's the grass? Well, there's the lightning to two weeks from the other grass will be there, so we better start moving right. So there's a visionary direction. There's also a whole bunch of risks you take into account along the way. At once they're moving, you can steer them right, but you're still aiming broadly for the same sort of direction. But you don't have to have an absolute vision. Don't have to have absolute crystallized perfect model on my point is that every town is potentially a systems model, provided they co constitute around what is they need to know to survive and be there in 50 years time.

[1:13:40] Jerry: Um, so I have a little Q of Mark Charles than Judy.

[1:13:44] Jay: Okay, the, um, Carlo Del quote that I use all the time, if only we knew what we know has really influenced how I think about this stuff. And I thought it might be useful just to show a couple of things that are very pertinent to some of the conversations that we have been having. So just, for example, the clouds mentioned the idea of pre mortems. And there's actually an interesting literature on this idea of storytelling in the future about what happened in the past and how effective it can be as as a way of communicating things. And Richard Taylor, Nobel Prize winning behavioral economists, said it put into the edge question 2017 that he thought pre mortems was her of them the most important tool that we are not using enough when we're talking about all sorts of problems that we're trying to solve, and so I just wanted to throw

[1:14:40] Charles: out there because throw

[1:14:42] Jay: that out there because there there is a lot of information out there on that. On a related note, you know this issue of in the food system. You've got the vegans and you've got everything else. You in the climate change area, it's it's much worse. And and yes, it's hard to get all these people talking to each other. But there's a whole different side of the problem, and that comes about, you know, in climate change, I use the metaphor of chest. So climate, chess and one of the things that we don't think about is that as we pull more people onto our team but say the team urgency, Um, and in this case, for example, the alternative economic models, alternative political models. You know the idea that we have to get rid of capitalism to solve climate change, and I'm not arguing with that point. All I'm saying is when we pull the anti capitalism forces into team urgency, a hail new Army marches on to the field for team no urgency because they're scared to death of the idea of getting rid of capitalism. And so it has a whole different complexity to who do you want to bring to the table and who do you want to engage in terms of what new oppositional barriers are you going to throw up just because those people are now part of the conversation to very last points? Klaus also mentioned the You know, the food system shock. There's It's interesting because the food system area and the potential climate change implications of food shocks is probably the most advanced systemic risk conversation in the climate change space. There's a lot of literature out there on it that we've been talking about the topic for about a decade, and, ah, and and so there's there's a lot out there that we could do more with last something, Ed pointed out. On on Fire, you know, it's it's worth remembering that in a 2010 National Academies report, um, they came up with this particular graphic, which I have used with decision makers, and this this graphic has been incredibly effective. This graphic is for the Western US, the area that you would expect to see annually burn 1 C and which is what we're at in the western US, and it ranges everywhere from about 70% for some ecosystems to 700% for other ecosystems. And and that's what we're seeing play out in California, right now, and with 80% of the houses being built in the urban wildlife and interface, this is no surprise at all on way anticipated this. You know, a decade ago, eso I just wanted to throw out some stuff because there is so much out there that supplements some of the different conversations, um, that that we're having and let me stop there.

[1:17:44] Jerry: Um marked I was That was lightning speed and brilliant. And I was like,

[1:17:50] Klaus: there was there were

[1:17:51] Jerry: many, many wonderful things there, so I really appreciate that. Um, including sort of Who do we bring in At what stage? Because it totally changes the conversation, Which is which strange attractor do we put in front of the crowd, which is, you know, connected to everything we're talking about. So, Charles, then Judy.

[1:18:08] Charles: Thanks. I sort of had my hand up back when we're talking about roles in gills and I got the flow sort of swept me off or you guys off. Um, but just another plug for the flow show and that we're going to really zoom in in a kind of Hopefully I can control tight title sequence, way on the roads in the gills. Also, Jerry and some others here, I'm gonna be there and or for sure invited. You know who you are and anyone, just DME or email for the details. I did put them way up in the chat here and in terms of the sequence of the flow sequence to during the biz flow segment, which is 10 PM Central Europe, 11 PM in California. Um, that's the coming out of the hash browns and looking at the role flow and guilt flow, then also kind of getting into the tech throw and sense flow and for sure, the repo floor repository that these right into the story flow. And at the next hour, two PM, Pacific in the story room. So que collab flow show. Everyone's invited back on the roles in the guilt.

[1:19:21] Jay: Charles, Can I just I I want to just say that I I understand some of the things that you're saying right now, but there's some of the things that are just you're using pattern language that doesn't that that I haven't learned yet. So when you talk about the flow shows, are these What? What are these things? How do you categorize them as it is it a capability? Is it a you know? Is it a Is it a mechanism? What? Its

[1:19:52] Charles: It's actually, it's actually a radio show, but it's some zoom. It's a show that's a show. It's right. So they just launched on Monday and for the next three Mondays and

[1:20:03] Jay: you're gonna be so you're gonna be You were going to be publishing information, right? We're

[1:20:10] Charles: recording and we dio understood ransom with video. But then everything goes through our work for process in the repository.

[1:20:18] Jay: Yeah, and so I think, you know, to put this in the context of of kind of the bigger conversation that we're having No, to me, this is precisely like one of those practices or capabilities right, that if we build up the flow shows and they get traction in the world now that's a channel for which we can start to communicate certain things into a line immobilized. And I think for us toe for us to create a mental map of what are all of these projects and activities and where do they fit in our system? The system is basically a system of change that is inclusive off lots of different, you know, kind of thought processes. I think that would help us and, you know, help us understand what everybody is. Not only is doing, but where it fits and how Where do we want a supercharger boost things? Then we know where we're getting traction and where we're not getting traction. We start to divert our energies and stuff toward those toward those things. But we don't yet have a map of activity yet. And as an Pendleton would say in Hamilton, like, we don't quite we haven't quite defined our systems of action.

[1:21:33] Jerry: And I think we need think we may need multiple maps of that territory. Absolutely. Finally, just quickly. Injury

[1:21:40] Charles: was quickly responded. Thank you, Matt. I really started to pursue that further, and you're for sure invited. I e. Not you as well. Um, just just a quick word on the context, which I didn't mention. But so this is on. I do have my naps. Of course. It's well, the the concert with Kika Lab. And maybe this has some some relevance. Residents with GM, I hope, I think. But we didn't articulate that it's p two p incubator idea of you to be incubator experimenter, you know? And what does that really mean? And we can't really know until we come together, you know, and talk about it and decided to get out together. Eso that's within the biz flow part of the social at large. So

[1:22:24] Jerry: cool. And it's on my to do list to have a conversation with you and learn about how these things might align and what we might, how we might better structure PICO lamb plus sodium. Have a

[1:22:33] Charles: wonderful cal with with Pete Kaminski yesterday about that too. Yeah,

[1:22:36] Jerry: Awesome. That happens a lot with Pete is crazy. Um, Judy, thank you for, um, that you're a muted and thank you for your patience. Please jump in.

[1:22:47] Judith: Doesn't say a muted on my machine.

[1:22:48] Jerry: You're good, You're good. Now you just don't get it.

[1:22:51] Judith: Yes, the thing that I'm focusing on, I'm really wanting action vectors and a major compliment. Maybe even working to some extent, knowledge rectors, because we're facing many multiple crises. And so it would be interesting, from my perspective, to try to actualize all of these dimensions and start mapping action plans that air dendritic instead of content that builds and connects to other content, and that would put a whole different spin. It would be like another zone of your brain, because it would, you know, you could take action vectors on anything in the brain. But I want to extract the action vectors to be able to look at what I can do in the arts organization that connects with the science organization that connects with the university and how I formed those connections to get some momentum going. That's not pursuing a linear half to a future that may have no relevance.

[1:23:56] Jerry: Thank you, Um, I agree. And part of what the goal of this call was, which were We've got 90 minutes. So we should start wrapping was to define some gills, for example, and some domains more for the gilts that the gilts could actually start forming up so that they could take action on whatever it is that whatever the practices airs, that they'd like to do so. But let's bounce that topic to next week's call and maybe before I also want to add a little something that I'll pass it to Neil and this is just about change, and I think one of our domains is just is changed. Like how change works, how to catalyze change what causes people to change. But I'm really struck that I have, ah, desk at a little design from here in Portland called Zieba, and every Monday I run a little think thing over lunch where we sit down and just talk about stuff in one Monday I was like, Hey, there seems to be a lot of activity around this virus coming and our conclusion at the end of the conversation. Waas Well, maybe we should ask everybody to take their laptops home because we don't know what might happen the next day. The next week there wasn't one of these lunch meetings because chuck down, lock down, happened in between thinking mate between thinking maybe we should take our laptops home. But business as usual and locked down and and so that has really stuck in my head because it was inconceivable to us that that all of the businesses of Portland never mind most of the world would actually be in lock down. And that is the week that happened in the US, and it had happened earlier in China and It just wasn't close enough to us that we noticed it said etcetera. But but the dramatic pace of change sometimes really sort of wax me, but also the

[1:25:32] Klaus: impossibility of conceiving that future and cost. I. I

[1:25:36] Jerry: love sort of future histories and back casting and a whole bunch of other kinds of means of trying to see what's going going to go on. But we sell them, can even even want to envision the future that actually happens. And here I'll go back to slavery, which is most most colonists in the early in the early states couldn't envision the American economy without slavery. It just was impossible for them to picture that the economy would even work unless there were people who were working for free, understand, subjugated in that. In that way, it was just a natural part of everything. The way you knew who the richest people were in the country was the people who owned it. The most humans. That was like It wasn't that Bill Gates has $60 billion. It was so and so has 2200 slaves, and that, therefore, is the wealthiest person. So so I think that part of our charter is to play with tools and to play with these methods and so forth so that we can arrive. That means to have these conversations with people in a way that that that that that works so that we can change. Um, the way we all work together for the better in some way. And that sounds really big in general. But even like saying something is better than something else is sort of got to find their way to that. And I've been watching the RNC every night, um, with a drink in hand, and it's been really, really hard because I feel like I'm looking at the negative of the film. I feel like I'm looking at counterfactual every day all the time. 24 7. I'm calling this the gaslighting convention because, apparently, um, Donald Trump is more of a mensch than Joe Biden and has and has gone to more graduations and shaken more people's hands and welcome to more troops back then. Joe, who has never done a thing, it's like and I'm like, this is just right and loud and clear on urgent need for what it is we're working on here in the realm of politics today, cause there's less than 70 days. I forgot what the count is to where we're going. But you know, we're we're on an imminent brink of Ah, a decision that scares me right now because it's smelling awfully close to what the 2016 scenario looked like anyway. Sorry for the long rant, but But my nerves are a little on edge because I've been watching the convention and trying to sit and absorb it in a way that is useful for our conversations here. Because I think the work we're doing really matters to that conversation also. And I think one of our domains is politics, governors and change and how this change happens. So enough on that, Neil, and you may end up having the the last word on today's call.

[1:28:12] Neil: Just my don't show share screens there, Jerry, Uh, doesn't I just want just want to mention that the reason I'm in Belgium is because I saw this coming, right? Not, uh, covert, but collapse and my partner And I said, You better get over here now. This is going to the shit's gonna hit the fan. We've been sensing this. Some of us have been doing this for 20 years, right? So we know this is coming. None of us here can pretend that we don't know climate collapse is coming. It's a question of when we choose to act right in terms of sharing screen to share the see if I work out where it went,

[1:28:48] Jerry: you have permission. It's just mean, frankly, need to give you that you could season

[1:28:53] Neil: coming up? Yes, right now that I find out where it went, Uh, may lost it.

[1:29:03] Jerry: Go down. So I kind of find power point. Come back up.

[1:29:06] Neil: Yes. Sorry. Trying to get back to power Point. Can you see it?

[1:29:10] Jerry: Yes. We see it just fine.

[1:29:12] Neil: Like hot. That's really funny. I don't make you smaller. Okay? Now can you sit large or

[1:29:21] Jerry: it's my way. There we go now,

[1:29:26] Neil: just just showing a construct here which might help with some of the conversations with heaven, her and guilds and things on. I think it was Kevin mentioned about neat. You need doers, right? And we need action on the ground and for those things which we can agree off, which was certain there Simple we can plan, we can control them, right? For those things that are technically complicated, were less certain. We need expertise for those things which are socially complicated. We need to build relationships and build common ground. And for those things that are truly complex, been a very, very different set of skills, right? And so this is a construct that I did after conversations with a variety people, as you can see at the bottom. And it was talking about for managing projects and scientists around regeneration. But complexity. So for projects and sites constructing, growing, harvesting, maintaining assets, we know how to do that. Building trust in organizing trustworthy teams. When I had to do that, procuring regenerative community sites and listing heads, hearts, hands engaging, facilitating this is socially complicated work which is dealing with people unlike mind. I just slide your guys across to here on this side, understanding the site potentials, for example, in master planning or farming or technology, right? It's a technical skill when you start to come out in the design of complexity. Though you're now looking at integrative anticipated, the whole system design off linked social ecological systems. How is this place got to survive in the future when you start to explore those landscapes of potentials, the human ecological and ecosystem IQ and you looking to catalyze social ecological entrepreneurship and synthesize systemic needs took a hair it lee line across time space relationships and change, right? The issue of the top is your individual consciousness, and education could raise that. Or you can go on your own journey collective consciousness like this group here, raising the realizations for deeper potentials. But there's also another all Why had here, which is holding spices and the system safe for the system to see and sense itself in deepening and widening through collective presence. ING, which is beyond for our class, was talking about the same model of theory you collective presence in at the bottom of the U towards targeted system health interventions, grief, working, etcetera. So that's just one example of the sort of thing. I think there's a structure here for the sort of stuff that's probably in the global brain, right? In terms of what's the simple stuff we don't have to do? What's the hardest stuff, what of skills? And I think there are guilt in these maps as well. They're not necessarily this one. But who are the people that could communicate at this level to do this sort of thing in this context? And if we can work out how to bring people together to do that in places and give them the information to do the work. And we will have transcended the old model with the intention of coming back to include them, and that's unethical intention to go further faster, take the risk to try and find a way forward, knowing that the current system is going to file and is failing. I'll stop there things,

[1:32:33] Jerry: Neil, that it's awesome that it that that is a whole call worth of on much more worth of thinking and appreciate it. My my thought here is, um, my mind, My model of change at a simplest is the three things that sort of typed into the chat, which is figure out how to give people simple. Cols like soil health, right? Like like a simple goal is Hey, if you mind the soil, a bunch of other stuff about the system gets better, right and here, and different for social systems. Different for but How do you How do you crystallize things down so that everybody doesn't have to have a map of the entire working system in their heads because that ain't gonna happen. So how do we make it so that people have simple guidelines? The change model that is my favorite change model is taking people by the hand to try something new, some somebody who trusts you, taking you into some new experience. And my story is nobody took me to my first Quaker meeting way back when I lived in Connecticut and I fell in love with quick charism because a buddy of mine said, Hey, why don't you meet me in the FAM, you know, at this building and I got there before they did, and then modeling behavior is incredibly important. So the more and Nikolaev is trying to do this with, you know, the Coolum and so forth how how do we actually, in Stan, she ate something that other people can can go. I'll have what they're having, like that line from when Harry Met Sally is one of my favorite lines because to me that's a one of the big catalysts of social change. is seeing that other people are doing this kind of weird new thing, but they're succeeding and they're having a great time. And I want it. I want to do that because the ground I'm standing on seems really flimsy and shaky and is getting worse and worse. But almost nobody will cross the river on their own because it looks really dangerous and deadly. So they and they can't imagine the grassy field on the other side, cause that's really hard. So that was just just riffing on your diagram. So I'm wondering where those concepts of things like modeling behavior fit into the diagram. You know, if they would like that, Uh, and I saw close, and I think Judy raised their hands and Matt

[1:34:30] Klaus: Yeah, I don't think we have to take it for granted. That systems have a tendency to stuff optimize well following Peter Drucker here, systems automatically sub optimize. So this is our This is the experience we just had in this NGO world, you know, animal rights, veganism and all of these things. And so to provide context within the system so it can harmonize its intentions that drinks power to the system But we have to assume from going in, even within our own discussions here, that they will always be a tendency to sub optimize.

[1:35:08] Jerry: And I think one reason they get sub optimize is that they get captured. And once they're captured, they get locked into some way that benefits a few people. You know, Teoh, go on from there a longer conversation. So let's go to Judy than math. And Charles and Judy just stepped away. Eso Matt and Charles will get to do what she comes back.

[1:35:30] Jay: Yeah, I agree that systems next sort of. It's It's this notion of, um, entropy, right? If you look at the long history of time and someone did this project out of Australia, I wish I could remember his name where he tracked time from the very beginning of everything through now and enter pre brings everything down right? That's a system in some way sub optimizing and then you have these threshold moments that elevate into into that other state. Usually that comes from, you know, a kind of a form of catharsis, which is, you know, systems change for two reasons. Catharsis, which is the complete breakdown of and then the emergence of something else, right? If you think about human catharsis or enlightenment, which is some level of awareness that, um, you achieve and then elevate to you know, that that higher state and I think you know that's the role of facilitation in systems is it to make it easy or easier for that system to achieve balance, right, Cause I don't know if they sub optimize. I think the Jerries point they become out of balance. Something wins and dominates and then consolidates the power and makes it, you know, ultimately, it basically destroys the system because of its own own thing. So the the plate the Sorry what I really wanted to come to the show is again back to this idea of organization and weird. His action happened, right? If action is happening in projects air happening out of these domains and domains, job is to find points of intervention and work together to find these points of intervention in the meta system that help it to keep moving forward. And guilds actually work across any type of intervention type. So and we needed This is why I want language to separate that we don't use guilds to mean everything, right? I think a guild is a skill or a practice where you are way of doing that could be applied against any action and your project that fits within domains of understanding that all have to ultimately be brought together into this complex system awareness that, you know, neo was talking about. And then the tools and the builders Those are to enable those guilds and those system places of action to do to do what they do best. We're building things in service up, and I think if we do that and rebuild, you know, he build all of that capability and we show demonstrate to model a new way of working. That's when you start to draw. I You know, I feel like I could start to draw some of people in the business community into this, right? Kevin and I are trying to do this right now with, you know, a big fidelity investments and drawing them into some of these change, you know, things that Kevin's been thinking about with these community banks. So I think we have to we have to build these models and then we have to go and distribute them to people who have the power to actually move in this direction. And I think talking about systemic risk and all that kind of stuff and helping them see these things is the way that we're going to do it. Um and so that's my kind of again. I'm coming back to the same system of action that, um you know, And the question is, when we start next time next conversation, maybe not with the check in, but we're just getting this conversation going cause I feel like we run out of time and we had more material. Now we have to use the material that already happened. Just start getting the thing organized.

[1:39:05] Jerry: Things just get to see when our calls get along. It's very weird, is lovely, but yeah. So Judy Charles and then closing poem. Okay,

[1:39:15] Judith: I just want to bring this back and I don't want to sound like a broken record, but we aren't doing in my mind a very good job of gathering the action points that are possible inflections. And if we can identify action steps that can be influenced in some way, and we attempt to influence them in multiple locations. Then we have an opportunity to learn what works and what doesn't work. So somehow we need a process to experiment, report and modify in an experiential, learning kind of model so that we do things. And then we find tune them, and then we find tuned them better. And then we change them completely because the world has changed. But they still apply. And that's the way creative interest generation kind of goes. And I think if we could focus on some of those aspects and how we can collect and enable those aspects, then maybe we can be better agents of change, which is, I think, what all of us are at heart wanting to do it in service of a better world. Better community.

[1:40:25] Jerry: Sorry. Thank you, Judy. That's right on, um, Charles. And then Neil with that closing poem because we should, uh, and their call,

[1:40:34] Charles: um, back on the the theme of system collapse and uncertainty. So there's a wanted to fresh on a new project involving Tom Atlee. He's not driving. It is an adviser, along with Martin Roush, who made the merchants idea to do had in language out of rice democracy work and made the website and some mountain. And a guy called Michael Dowd, who I haven't really checked out is an evolutionary evangelist who are wondering if you might be in your brain, Jerry, but And so, uh, it's basically around, uh, deep adaptation, but more particularly, like wise adaptation with this this kind of concept on bits feeding out of the West democracy patterns through event Could be I honestly didn't. Um Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. Okay, I think so. But, um um, yeah, just just to mention so why? It's kind of combining several models feeding the wise democracy, um, work into the transition design through the lens of transitions are an ecosystem of collective sense making, which I mentioned a bit. I think there's still, um, it's still right to kind of go into the forum for GM, for example. And, um, again, it's a new pattern night which actually around us to rise adaptation. So just stay tuned for that. Awesome.

[1:42:06] Jerry: Um, thank you. That coming started on the whole bunch of stuff. Um, Neil, why don't we take everybody take a breath and, uh what meal?

[1:42:16] Neil: Thanks. I'll just close the door because we've just chosen exactly the moment that the Bells are tolling on there

[1:42:23] Jerry: pulling for us. This gives us that moment to ticket breath.

[1:42:33] Ken: A nice to have the bells tolling. Actually,

[1:42:35] Jerry: yeah, Ideo seems something

[1:42:39] Neil: something son has seems appropriate doesn't

[1:42:41] Jerry: way. We're just having that conversation.

[1:42:44] Neil: Yeah, it's funny that child's should mention Michael Dowd because Michael Dowd has interviewed Jim Bandele from Deep Adaptation. And Michael Dad has a wonderful Siris on post doom, you know, except and then now what? Right? Which is very much where the business Savannah myself is coming from. And now what? Now that you know now what? And a new article by Jim Bandele and Guile Brad broke in July came out, and it prompted me to finalize a problem that I started writing during the fires in Australia last year. So I'll start with a quote from them, and then I'll go into the parliaments in solidarity with all those feeling things, pain and feeling what's happening in California and will happen in many other places. So it starts with quote hurt is not something to suppress or seek a distraction. Tears could be a truth that we can integrate into Abbey, then we can be honest with each other about the path of hit because of the path of both despair and dedication. Paying attention fully towards around us and in front of us, even though it hurts, is to be fully alive. As Khaleel Gibran wrote, The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. There is a calling. We're hearing toe witness the beauty of life on Earth, even if so much as they lost in the same way would tend the bedside of a dying loved one on my palms called no ripples. And it was written, uh on an evening in a rainforest pool. And in Australia, best Fars were starting to rise through the southern part of the country. Moving that way, no ripples immersed, disembodied head above the surface, sunken body motionless despite the lips of countless fish come to taste, this large human sacrifice laid out in their shrinking sacred waters. As the burning sun dipped behind Mount Allen, I felt the heat of the day of the whole unrelentingly drying and frying week, draining from me as the waters cool, seeped in In this, the deepest spot beside the long green wall of water, we'd rising, providing cover for the shy mirror. River turtles, who seeks solace here and who's endangered, knows tips. I've seen breathing at this fluid juncture between the rocky bottom and the cool, clear water. No ripples, I tell myself, mindfully a self imposed discipline in this wild and sacred place. As agile. One of these approach first one and then to cautious alert, Gray is pricking at any sound from the forest. My face level with theirs as they look toward me. Large rear haunches up a saline, their pretty faces down and drink. Drink from the shallowing Coolidge, where more water weeds, a stranded daily by the falling water level and each the conference shrinking suit. Long, slow, deep drafts dislike their first. Finally, after patiently Phil, they rose, looked around, licked their paws on, bounded off into the crisp, dry folded leaves creek bed, leaving me immersed in air and water on the liminal darkening time zone between where water beetles dodged each other like precision sports car team and long legged water. Boatman dented the water, walking on inverted clouds and rain forest reflections Bending the fighting lot with a freak poked the UN pierced service tension creating dimpled, silvery minutes sky in this space time light. Continue at this air water interface through which I quietly patrolled below barely visible Thai fish, nibbling my tickled skin and forming goose bumps. Is it our giant card? And there were clean arrests, and as dust descended, the cicadas shrill one last deafening, triumphant coffin, its course, and then fills. So I saw it was like the end of an act. Sure, I applaud. No, I own with silence. And what a science. Is there anything more solid than the pores in the collective soundscape? After a mass dusk so kind A sounds returned, I heard surprised thoughts say, Hey, I didn't see me. What did they? It's certainly taken their time drunk. They're full, as if one wasn't there. Why? Because they sense that I was no threat because I made no ripples. Well, perhaps because I too new soon there would be none. And they sensed, as I do that we every living thing assembled here would bow to one of the ritual of this sacred share at home now in Brisbane, 150 kilometers south. A smoke from too many fires turns parched. Suburbia orange. I reflect on the to drive florists on the shrinking pools on the tinderbox conditions and my tears well up. Imagine. Imagine this. Imagine if, as each tier world and swelled slipped away each rainfall and gentle to drop, drop by minuscule drop could splash and leave a ripple Then another then ripple after ripple enough to refill that sacred pool enough to satisfy those dependent on its cool Clearwater's enough to replenish that which has filled me more than once. So the cycle of love, mutuality and life could continue. I will keep crying for I believe in my soul that my tears will make a difference even as the flies keep coming.

[1:49:37] Jerry: Wow, Neil. Thank you. That was beautiful.

[1:49:42] Neil: Thank you all.

[1:49:43] Jerry: Um, thank you so much. That is a stark and beautiful place for us to end our call today, Um, see on the intertubes and next week and hold you wall in our hearts. Thank you.

[1:50:02] Neil: Thanks, everybody take care.

[1:50:06] Jerry: Bye bye.